Drones, Howitzers and Vehicles for the Territorial Defence Units. Gen. Stańczyk: A Lot of Room for Improvement in the Training System [Interview]

The Territorial Defence Forces have undergone certification. How do you assess its course, and how did the evaluated elements perform?

Brig. Gen. Dr. Krzysztof Stańczyk, Commander of Territorial Defence Forces: Let me start by saying that the Territorial Defence Forces (WOT) have been preparing to achieve their capabilities since their inception. This is done through participation in numerous exercises and operations aimed at testing and improving specific command and staff, as well as troop capabilities.

We need to work on the cohesion level of WOT elements. The pandemic and the resulting restrictions, coupled with WOT’s heavy involvement in assisting society and administration in fighting the pandemic in 2020-2021, destabilized the WOT training system. There’s much to be improved in this area.

Additionally, the individual soldier’s training system should evolve to achieve the desired operational capabilities.

Another area for improvement is the equipping of WOT with modern communication equipment. However, we depend on external institutions for the delivery of this equipment, which is beyond WOT’s control. I must emphasize that communication and command systems are a top priority when it comes to equipment deliveries for WOT.

The Powiat-2023 exercise, conducted in cooperation with pro-defence organizations, coincided with the certification. There was considerable controversy in the media regarding the exercise. How would you respond to this? Will exercises designed to expose real shortcomings continue?

The Powiat-2023 exercise was not part of the certification. It was a defensive exercise for one of the counties, primarily aimed at improving coordination between county service heads, inspections, the police, fire services, county organizational units, and the military in carrying out defence tasks.

Of course, we draw certain conclusions regarding the exercise’s execution, the performance of the involved soldiers, as well as its planning and communication. The Powiat-2023 exercise was highly rated by the Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces.

Participation in such exercises is an excellent opportunity for our soldiers to exchange experiences, refine procedures, and improve cooperation principles between various services. Each exercise adds to our knowledge and experience, which is then incorporated into our training activities.

Currently, perhaps the biggest operational task for the Armed Forces is supporting the protection of the eastern border daily. How does WOT’s involvement in the Bezpieczne Podlasie [Safe Podlasie] operation look? Can we expect it to increase over time, relieving the operational forces?

The Territorial Defense Forces have been engaged in protecting Poland’s eastern border since autumn 2021, for almost three years now.

The training-defence operations conducted so far and actions supporting the Border Guard in ensuring border security were replaced on August 1st by a single operation named “Safe Podlasie”. Responsibility for this operation was taken over by the 18th Mechanized Division.

As for the Territorial Defense Forces, the ZZ Biała group has been reorganized into the Task Group South, now under the responsibility of the 19th Nadbużańska Territorial Defence Brigade. Besides the operational forces, WOT soldiers trained in Rules of Engagement (ROE), safe weapon handling, and familiar with the rights they possess while performing tasks, are being deployed to “Safe Podlasie”.

After the launch of the operation “Safe Podlasie” operation, the number of soldiers involved in border protection increased from 6,000 to 17,000. The number of WOT soldiers performing tasks in border regions also grew.

Within WOT, a Border Protection Component is to be formed, which will take command and responsibility for border operations. What will its structure look like?

In 2022, the idea of creating the Border Protection Component (KOP) emerged, based on lessons learned and experiences from the geopolitical situation in the region at that time, particularly related to the use of the Polish Armed Forces on the state border with Belarus. The creation of KOP aimed to strengthen the Polish Armed Forces« ability to defend the state border in the northeastern and eastern directions and to support services responsible for ensuring border security.

The birth of the Border Protection Component required the establishment of new brigades. Among the 18 WOT brigades, two brigades are currently being created within the Border Protection Component: the 19th „Nadbużańska” and the 20th „Przemyska”. This year, two light infantry battalions in the 1st „Podlaska” and 4th „Warmińsko-Mazurska” Territorial Defence Brigades have already been transformed into border defence battalions. By 2026, the 1st „Podlaska” and 4th „Warmińsko-Mazurska” Brigades will be fully converted into border defence brigades, with a total of four such brigades within WOT. In addition to the four designated brigades, a Border Protection Component Command will be established in a location other than Zegrze. The task of the created Border Protection Component will be to defend border areas in the event of a threat.

How will the KOP brigades be staffed and equipped? Will KOP soldiers use border fortifications?

Of course, KOP brigades must be equipped with the necessary gear and weapons to carry out this new task. The staffing structure must also be changed; we assume that KOP brigades should be professionalized to a much greater extent. By 2028, KOP Brigades should consist of 70% professional soldiers and 30% Territorial Defense soldiers.

I would add that the process of building KOP capabilities is planned in close synchronization with the “National Deterrence and Defense Program - Eastern Shield.” The 1st PBOP and 4th W-MBOP brigades will achieve full operational capability faster (by the end of 2026). The Border Protection Component will be ready to operate by January 1, 2028, taking responsibility for the „Eastern Shield” program. KOP soldiers will monitor elements of this system.

However, the Border Guard will continue to bear responsibility for the border itself and protection against migration threats. The Border Guard is also responsible for the construction of existing barriers on the border. This will not change after the establishment of KOP, although the higher number of professional soldiers in its ranks will undoubtedly facilitate the task of supporting the Border Guard.

Will KOP units also stand out in terms of equipment, such as a greater number of vehicles, including armoured ones?

KOP subunits will stand out within WOT due to their new capabilities. To achieve these capabilities, acquiring equipment not previously found in this branch of the military is essential. These include 105 mm howitzers, planned for acquisition of artillery batteries (one battery per KOP Brigade), as well as highly mobile and manoeuvrable vehicles used for patrolling the border zone, and also during operations in cooperation with the Border Guard.

These vehicles will have an appropriate level of armour, allowing them to be safely used in daily service on the state border. It is important to note that this is a procurement separate from the one carried out under the Urgent Operational Requirement, announced by Deputy Prime Minister Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz and the Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces, for acquiring 150 vehicles primarily intended for the operational forces.

Another novelty, and thus an area of additional equipment for KOP, will be Counter-UAS capabilities.

Do you see the need for equipping other WOT units with heavier, armoured patrol vehicles?

Maybe not heavier, but certainly reconnaissance vehicles. Currently, WOT does not have formal reconnaissance elements, except for Image Reconnaissance Groups. Therefore, reconnaissance is mainly carried out by Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) and additionally by ad hoc elements conducting patrol reconnaissance. Given the experiences from the war in Ukraine, reconnaissance cannot rely solely on UAVs, as conditions do not always allow their use (weather conditions, enemy jamming systems).

Therefore, creating reconnaissance elements, capable of conducting patrol reconnaissance is necessary, which will involve acquiring reconnaissance vehicles. This will increase their mobility, and range of operations, and allow for faster and more accurate completion of reconnaissance tasks. It will also enable the transport of specialized equipment. In the set of operational objectives outlined by the Minister of Defence for planning activities in 2025, WOT was assigned the task of forming reconnaissance subunits at the light infantry battalion level. Work on achieving this goal has already begun.

Additionally, reconnaissance vehicles for WOT have been included in the Polish Armed Forces Technical Modernization Plan.

WOT is taking over the protection of the Rzeszów airport. What challenge does this pose for the formation? Will the Territorial Defense Forces also be involved in similar tasks across the country?

Since July 26, we have been supporting the operational forces of the Military Task Force POLLOGHUB Rzeszów-Jasionka. These tasks are related to defending the Rzeszów airport, through which aid for Ukraine passes. This is because the units of the 18th Mechanized Division are focusing on supporting the protection of the eastern border.

These are 24-hour patrol and defence tasks. Currently, we have forces in the form of elements provided by four brigades, totalling 175 soldiers. They are gradually rotated. The main task of WOT soldiers is to ensure that POLLOGHUB Rzeszów’s operations are conducted safely and without hindrance.

When it comes to other facilities, supporting the provision of security for critical infrastructure is one of our tasks, even though security units are the first ones to be responsible for that. We conduct training, however, at other facilities. We can reinforce the security, should a need as such emerge. We have not been given a task as such so far.

How is the recruitment and training process for WOT soldiers currently proceeding? Nowadays, there are also other forms of military service available, such as DZSW (Voluntary Basic Military Service) and active reserve. How is WOT coping with the “competition” from other forms of service, and is it able to increase its numbers?

Every trained individual, whether in WOT or DZSW, is an important element influencing our country’s defence. WOT is the only branch of the armed forces that allows one to balance civilian life with active military service. TSW (Territorial Military Service) has a different nature of service compared to DZSW, with a different (weekend) training schedule. WOT is made up of 87% volunteers. In many cases, these are military enthusiasts, members of pro-defence organizations, survival hobbyists, and those who lead active professional lives, and thus choose to serve in WOT.

Currently, WOT has over 40,000 soldiers, of which 5,550 are professional soldiers, and 34,564 are soldiers of the Territorial Military Service. Recruitment into WOT is effective; last year, we admitted over 12,000 soldiers.

However, the turnover among territorial service soldiers is much higher than among professional soldiers. To some extent, this is natural because professional soldiers usually hold command positions that require higher skills. On the other hand, some TSW soldiers transition to professional military service.

The training process for soldiers, who are called up for training for 2 days a month and additionally for 14 days a year for field training, will always have its specific nature — different from the training nature of soldiers in other branches of the Armed Forces.

And what about soldiers leaving? Are there plans for positions, for example, in the active reserve if the planned number of Territorial Military Service soldiers isn’t met?

Departures are inevitable and often dictated by the family or professional situations of the soldiers. When a WOT soldier resigns from TSW, there is the option to transition to the active reserve, where training takes place much less frequently. However, it’s worth noting that WOT serves as a provider of trained reserve personnel. For example, last year, more than 9,000 soldiers joined the reserves. Over 700 transitioned to operational forces, and around three hundred enrolled in military academies.

Nevertheless, I must admit that soldier departures are a challenge for us—retaining them in service is more difficult than recruitment. When some leave, others return to us, for example, after completing DZSW. One of the challenges is enabling soldiers to balance service, which requires high availability, with fulfilling professional duties.

We are therefore working to ensure that employers create better conditions for WOT soldiers. We have programs such as the “WOT-friendly Employer”. One of our proposals is to reduce the health insurance premium, which would help compensate employers for the costs associated with participation in exercises. Currently, it’s possible to apply for compensation, but the process is complex. We also plan to prepare annual bonuses for WOT soldiers.

What are the current priorities for the technical modernization of the Territorial Defense Forces (WOT)? In which directions will the anti-tank defence be strengthened?

An important priority, perhaps less spectacular but no less critical than weapons or even individual equipment, is communication systems. They are essential for task execution. We also want to equip our territorial defence battalions with drones of various classes, whose usefulness is demonstrated by the conflict in Ukraine. Plans also include the purchase of loitering munitions.

I would also like to emphasize that support companies have been established in the 1st-6th brigades located on the eastern border and in the 19th and 20th border defence brigades. We also plan to establish such companies in the newly forming OT brigades: the 15th and 17th.

In the remaining brigades, the formation of support companies is not planned until after 2025. These support companies will be equipped with strike capabilities: anti-tank Javelin missiles, Piorun anti-aircraft systems, and Fly Eye drones for conducting image reconnaissance. Additionally, there are plans for the extensive delivery of Carl-Gustaf grenade launchers, purchased for the Polish Armed Forces.

What will the development of artillery capabilities in the WOT look like in the context of the Border Defence Component (KOP) that you mentioned?

Starting from 2026-28, we aim to create 105 mm tube artillery units the size of batteries in the first six brigades and the two Border Defence Component Brigades. The procurement may be made under the Tułacz program, which provides for the modernization of artillery assets in the armed forces.

Our analyses have shown that we must have our strike capabilities in the Permanent Areas of Responsibility, and 105 mm artillery will best provide this. We have not yet decided whether it will be towed or self-propelled artillery. However, the calibre has been chosen. It aligns with NATO standards. Meanwhile, 155 mm calibre artillery is long-range, involves more complex systems, and requires a larger number of soldiers to operate.

The General Staff’s priority is the so-called Szpej operation, which aims to enhance individual equipment. How will this look within the WOT?

WOT soldiers are already equipped with modern equipment that meets the requirements of the modern battlefield and is in line with the standards of the land forces. We regularly increase the amount of modern equipment for our soldiers, such as HP-05 composite helmets, which will become standard WOT equipment, and „Gryf” vests.

It should be noted that today’s equipment not only serves a ballistic protection role but also acts as a platform for additional equipment — for helmets, for example, lighting or night vision equipment. Therefore, before selecting equipment for our soldiers, we conducted analyses based on the experiences of other branches of the armed forces, including those outside the country and in armed conflicts.

Additionally, as WOT, we are an expert institution in the supply of various types of individual equipment for all branches of the Armed Forces, including helmets, Grot rifles, and Vis pistols. After saturating with helmets, bulletproof vests, and MSBS Grot rifles, we will also strive to build a wartime reserve for reserve soldiers, as their equipment currently leaves much to be desired compared to WOT soldiers. Everything depends on equipment deliveries. After recent visits to Maskpol and the Łucznik Arms Factory, I am confident that the Polish industry can meet these needs and even increase production.

I would also like to ask about drones. WOT is developing the capabilities of using FlyEye, and Warmate systems, but what about lighter micro-class systems, which are widely used in Ukraine?

Currently, WOT is equipped with mini Fly Eye UAV systems, which are reconnaissance systems. According to the Technical Modernization Plan (PMT), the number of these systems will be multiplied by 2035 (390 Fly Eye systems). The PMT also guarantees the delivery of 228 nano UAV systems. WOT intends to acquire micro UAVs of the multirotor type, which will extend reconnaissance capabilities from the light infantry section level.

In total, we plan to have over 3,500 sets, making it clear that equipping with multicopters is intended to be widespread. We also want to use them for carrying combat (reusable) and logistical loads.

Based on the experiences of the war in Ukraine, work is also underway to build strike capabilities based on FPV drones. These findings have been included in the concept for the operation of UAV systems in the Polish Armed Forces.

Thank you for this conversation.